With or without the quotes, we seriously know that it isn’t. I mean, with quotes, you can see that my blog name happens to have “shoulders” instead of “turtles”. And without the quotes, we already we know that earth isn’t suppported on huge turtles (or tortoises). By the way, those huge turtles are called “Terrapins”. (Surprisingly, “Terrapin”, “Unicorn” or “Pegasus” doesn’t produce a wrong spelling indication in Microsoft Word. And boy, “Hadron” creates a spelling mistake. Microsoft only lets you write those things which do not exist. To be on the safe side, probably……. )
For a good idea of what a supposed world supported over four elephants standing on the back of a tortoise would have looked like, read a bit of the “Discworld” fiction series (by Terry Pratchett).
Ok now, Shoulder??
Ok, where does that stray “shoulder” come from? I don’t know. At least, not now. (Thou shalt be granted that knowledge at a more favorable time)
Once upon a time, there was a plague. A very horrible plague. Because of that some universities closed, and the students were sent home. A certain student, given some time from the humdrum of his routine life, allegedly, saw an apple fall. Yeah, that’s right, it was Isaac Newton. Skipping his biography, I proceed: after acheiving a lot from his life, he said, “If I have seen farther than others, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants.”
(Actually, this was written to a letter to Robert Hooke, and is transliterated roughly as, “If I have seen further, it is by standing upon the shoulders of Giants.” Got this in the footnote of an old Resnick and Halliday (1980) that I have.)
Today, Newtonian mechanics happens to be the most basic stuff taught in physics (for proof, see a class IX science textbook). In a typical introductory textbook, they talk about Newton’s three laws, and demand to ask questions like, “Which of the laws is the most basic one?” , and “What does momentum measure?” Also, a student has to remember stuff like, “Force is defined to be the rate of change of momentum.” (I still remember my classmates encircling this sentence in their textbooks, writing V.Imp. next to it.)
When a student is through this, they proceed on to, what is called, more “advanced” topics in mechanics. They learn all this stuff by heart, and at the end of final exams, they won’t remember a single thing. Boy, they don’t even know what they have missed.
Okay , I got too much deviated from what I wanted to say. The point is, there is a lot of stuff in Newtonian mechanics itself to cover before you can actually even claim to “know” Newton’s Laws. Even today, a lot of mechanical engineering is just based on those simple fundamentals set up by Newton, and the ideas that developed before him. Thanking an example, the idea of using a flywheel in a crank-shaft to keep a wheel rotating during the bottom-most and top-most points of rotation (in the internal combustion engine), dates back centuries before Newton (as per what I’ve heard). There were many more such essential ideas. Galileo’s experiments with a wheel going down a ramp, and him measuring the time taken to traverse the ramp, is such an example. Those were the shoulders that Newton needed (I mean, in addition to the ones he already had). Those were his famed giants. Galileo was such a giant.
To understand anything at all in physics, one must stand on Newton’s shoulders. Somebody did. Only after that was a lot of stuff developed in science and engineering.
Developments aside, how can you expect to make any progress unless your descending generation knows it? That’s true. Teaching is more important today than anybody ever thought. Do you know that there is a section for “Physics Education Research (PER)”, in some American Jorunals? There are even entire journals devoted to “Science Education”.
Recently, I asked a professor, “Sir, What do you need to go through to do physics pedagogy?”
He replied, “For that, you need to pronunce it correctly first!” (I pronunced pedagogy as “pay-duh-gau-gi”), going on, he added, “It is called pay-duh-gau-gee.” My instinctive reply was to repeat (monkey-see-monkey-do), “Okay sir, pay-duh-gau-gee. What do I need to do in order to work on physics pedagogy?” “You mean, you want to teach physics? The best way to become a good teacher ,” he said, “is to know your subject well.”
That is, in the sequence, what I want to emphasize on. In order to teach the subject to ones students, that person, in turn, must know his subject well. Somebody, in order to teach Newton’s ideas to 9th graders, must have been well versed in physics. That somebody must have learned the subject just too well. For that, the person will have known to apply those ideas to his/her of work. (Just because I have written “his/her” and not “her/his” doesn’t make me gender biased. Some of the best physicists like Lise Meitner, Marie Curie, were women, and their work tells us a lot more………..you get the idea, don’t you?)
Back to the general theme, in order to teach young people about such a wonderful idea, they in turn, must have been standing on someone else’s shoulders (probably their teachers or some good authors). Those people make it big because they actually know and enjoy whatever they are teaching. That enthusiasm is, in turn, reciprocated by their students, who go on to become the future of science and engineering (many other become managers and CEO’s, but, that’s a different essay, not this one).
That’s why, its Shoulders all the way down……..Down from your teacher, to the book writer……….down a few more generations to Newton, who himself admits standing on Giant’s shoulders. Its Shoulders All the Way Down.
References & Acknowledgements: There is a book by Donald Simanek and John Holden called “Science Askew”. There they use the statement by Newton in a parody, where Archimedes says, “Give me a place to stand, and I will move the earth.” They humour about what Archimedes would have stood on and what he could have used as a lever. The excerpt is as follows:
“Turtle physics
In pre-scientific times the Hindus pictured the world as supported by elephants who had nothing better to do than to stand on the back of a huge turtle. We view such ideas with amusement today. They are interesting as history, literature and metaphor, but they are certainly not scientific models.
The eager student inquires of his master ‘‘What holds up the earth?’’ His wise teacher, steeped in the wisdom of the ancients, answers: ‘‘The earth is a flat disk supported on the strong backs of many elephants.’’
The student ponders this, then asks, ‘‘But what do these elephants stand upon?’’ ‘‘They stand on the back of a very large turtle.’’ ‘‘But doesn’t this turtle need something to rest upon?’’ the inquiring student asks. ‘‘It sits on another turtle, in the very same manner as the first,’’ the all-wise teacher replies.
‘‘Well, then,’’ the student says, ‘‘The same question arises as before: What does this turtle rest upon?’’
‘‘And the same logic must apply as before. The turtle sits on another turtle, which sits on another turtle, and from there on it’s turtles all the way down.’’ The student is quite impressed by the consistency of this logic, but is still not satisfied. ‘‘Great master, the enormity of this system puzzles me. Please tell me, should not the same logic apply in the other direction? If each turtle has a turtle on its back,might there also be turtles all the way up? And what need is there for the elephants?’’ The wise teacher smiled, and replied ‘‘You have much to learn, my boy. You have begun the infinite search for ultimate truth. You can only progress toward this truth by asking questions. But you will learn that each answer leads to another and more subtle question, which then leads to another. Great truths lie at each end of this chain of questions and answers, but they are ultimately no more profound than the chain itself.’’
When Archimedes was trying to ‘‘sell’’ folks on the idea of his law of the lever, he boasted ‘‘Give me a place to stand and I will move the earth!’’ But what would he stand upon? Sir Isaac Newton supplied the metaphor when he said: ‘‘If I have seen farther than others it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants.’’ Voila! The gedanken experiment is solved! Archimedes could stand on the shoulders of his philosopher-predecessors, Aristarchus, Euclid, Epicurus, Theophrastus, Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, Democritus, Zeno, Ptolemy . . . And it’s philosophers all the way down. He would need more than something to stand on. He’d need a fulcrum as well. Perhaps an infinite stack of turtles would make a good fulcrum.”
This was from pages 101, and 102 of that book. Curious isn’t it? Stephen Hawking’s version goes as follows:
“A well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the center of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy. At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: “What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise.” The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, “What is the tortoise standing on.” “You’re very clever, young man, very clever,” said the old lady. “But it’s turtles all the way down!” ”
This was from the 1st page of the 1st chapter of the book “A Brief History of Time” (I agree, I don’t remember too well about texts that I have read, but my recollection was fair enough.)
Either way, this just seems to be a story, and has no roots that either authors could justify. (There is this Hindu concept of “Diggaja” which are the 10 elephants representing the 10 principal directions, but really I don’t know what they meant by a Hindu picture.) Whatever be the case, these are just stories. This is the first thing I wanted to show.
The second this is: there is an independent discussion in the same book “Science Askew” about the literary usage of the phrase “On the shoulders of Giants.” Here goes:
“A quote note
We couldn’t resist sprinkling our favorite quotations throughout this collection. It’s helpful to know who first uttered or wrote a quotable quote, something about the person, when he or she lived, and when it was said. So we have tried to indicate those facts where we’ve been able to track them down. Unfortunately, some quotes, too good to omit, came from sources which provided no more than a name, and we were unable to identify the author. To those folks (if they are still living) we apologize, and welcome additional information from anyone who knows more about them. Quote collections are notoriously prone to errors. Any clever saying someone invents which is catchy enough to be widely quoted was very likely said by someone earlier. When a celebrity utters a popular, commonly known saying, that person is forever after credited with it. Consider the often-repeated comment of Newton in a letter to Hooke, 5 Feb. 1676. (Corres I, 416): If I have seen further [than others] it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants. Sir Isaac Newton (1642–1727) English mathematician and physicist. Compare: Pygmies placed on the shoulders of giants see more than the giants themselves. Lucan (Marcus Annaeus Lucanus) (39–65) Roman poet, born in Spain Much later, in the 12th century Bernard of Chartres observes: Nos esse quasi nanos gigantum humeris insidientes. (We are as dwarfs sitting on the shoulders of giants.) Robert Merton did a comprehensive study of this quote, finding 26 other authors who used it between the time of Bernard and Newton. And that’s only those persons who achieved some literary recognition.”
This is an excerpt from the Acknowledgements section of that book. Co-incidentally, this is my acknowledgements section for them. Next to this article was cartoon showing people standing on top of each other, one upon another’s shoulders (obviously). The caption to this cartoon was “Its shoulders all the way up” and was meant to poke fun at that phrase. I borrowed it, and changed ‘up’ to ‘down’, because, my purpose was to show that all we are learning today is due to innumerable contributions from people before us, more than 90% of whom we do not even know. By the way, the phrase “shoulders all the way down” reminds me of the festival in which people form human towers in order to get a shot at a pot of butter placed about 3 to 4 storeys above them. So, these were the main thing that led me to naming my blog that way. Thanks for reading.
Do read the Wikipedia page on “Turtles all the way down”.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down